President Obama,
Please order the cessation of sales, importation and manufacture of all guns and ammunition until we figure this problem out! If it was found that someone had used a drug like Tylenol in some way to kill these children, what would we do? Remove their products from the shelves until safeguards are put in place.
As the NRA and the manufacturers of weapons devise ways to get around and whittle down any laws we put in place, the solutions that have been and are now being revised have not worked. It is time to take a bold, courageous stand. Take the time to reboot and rethink our approach to gun sales. The products that these businesses are producing are being used for other then what they were intended!
What can the President do? Under emergency powers the President should order ALL sales, importation and manufacture of all GUNS and AMMUNITION to cease or desist. Let the supply on the streets dry up. Institute a collection and buy back program to remove and destroy every illegal weapon and piece of ammo while we review methods and procedures guaranteeing operations can be verified and assurance can be made that their products only reach safe hands.
And I'm saying manufacturers don't make money from the illegal sales by individual shop owners illegally selling off the books. The gun manufacturers do not assume the shop owners are going to sell them illegally, they do not know their individual intentions. If I own a shop and sell a pack of Marlboro off the books to minors for a higher price, Phillip-Morris doesn't see a penny from that. I've already paid them the price they charge for a LEGAL sale. meaning whether the sale is legal or not they still make the same amount of money. And do you think people like me who are selling them off the books are going to tell gun manufacturers And do you see the amount of money these companies make from legal sales as it is? These illegal sales you talk about make up just a FRACTION of the total gun sales. You're basically saying every gun manufacturer has an illegal distribution system which is pure paranoia. Criminals give other criminals weapons. The manufactures are simply responsible for MANUFACTURING, they sell to distributors, and it is THESE PEOPLE who distribute them illegally. Gun manufacturers support groups to fight tougher laws because tougher laws will prevent people from buying guns LEGALLY which is where the majority of their sales are. And
I buy cigarettes from a state with less taxes from a smuggler and sell them where they're more expensive. The company does not see a penny from that sale. They still sold it to the dealer at the price in that state. If you can't prove it, you can't assume the majority of gun sales are done illegally
I can not believe your so naive so I suspect that you are trapped in your own logic and can not figure out how to back track. Do you actually think that Gun Manufacturers do not know where every single penny one of their money comes from. There is hardly a business on your local street corner that lacks the ability or technology to access this type of data. Never mind a multi billion dollar business , they know exactly how much money goes to legit sales like yourself and how many wind up in illegal sales. Your acting stupid now by taking this line of argument , I repeat if you keep mouthing inane excuses as you have during your above comments then you have the blood of those children on your hands as well as Lanza's You live with that Or Act like a Man and make a change when your wrong, there is nothing wrong with owning a weapon but from now on you will have to accept the process of strict regulation and training as well as constant updating your license to do so. If real controls are put in place and don't seem to make a difference those regulations will slowly be eased.
Go look at how much gun manufacturers make. And now go look at the media backlash against these manufacturers. you think this is what they desire? for more guns to get into the hands of criminals thus forcing the creation of new laws to RESTRICT the sale of their item to LEGAL owners, where they make the majority of their money? You don't seem to understand the concept that once the manufacturer sells it to a shop owner that they don't see a penny from any illegal transaction that shop owner makes, the gun is already paid for, presumably legally. You're assertion that gun manufacturers make the most money from illegal sales couldn't be more wrong. Sorry but if you think these companies intend for their product to get into that hands of gang members and people like Lanza you have no business debating anything regarding guns. You simply don't know what you're talking about
A) simple economics works B) how the black market works If you think the manufacturer makes more money from the gang member selling them on the streets than a legal sale than I'm just going to stop this because this is going nowhere and I will not debate such a basic concept. First of all, you don't even know if those guns were smuggled, stolen and simply purchased from a gun owner, not a shop owner, and you have shown no proof to even backup your assertion that gun manufacturers make more from illegal sales and have the nerve to call me wrong? speaking of being wrong, no laws will stop this. No law will stop someone from stealing a persons weapon and turning it against them which is EXACTLY what happened in Newtown and the fact you try to guilt me probably means you have nothing on deck. FYI: No law would have prevented Newtown. Yet here you are drastically trying to create measures to prevent it. Here's an idea, we arm people to protect our money, how about the same for our own damn kids? In summary: you rely on your laws for protection Since criminals will always get weapons, I'll rely on my weapons.
Once again in an effort to make it simpler I will dumb it down even further. You say that the Gun companies do not make any money on illegal sales because after the first legal sale takes place that's all they receive. I am saying that there are many more "so called" legal sales that make their way to illegal hands. I did take the time to explain to you just one method used. Please read this before commenting. (WARNING THIS IS AN EXAMPLE) Lets say a typical legal gun store has 10 customers per day and that each buy 10 guns. What I am saying (remember this is just a simplified example to make a point not real #s) is that 5 of those customers are law bidding gun lovers or hunters so here are 50 guns legally sold The other 5 buyers are able thru weak laws and loop holes that would normally prevent them from buying guns legally purchase the other 50 guns These other 5 sales appear legal on the books This group of 5 buyers takes those 50 guns and sells them at a high profit to people that are unable to buy guns legally (criminals). It is that group of 5 buyers with bad intention that need to be shut down Gun companies know about these buyers and actually use money from you to protect them by corrupting the legal process (bribes,financial support to candidates who promise not to vote for any laws that tighten p the system) This is a huge % of their profit Your being naive to think they are unaware and your donated money or support smears your hands in blood
And those laws can easily be sidestepped. Who's to say the 5 who pass all the tight regulations won't sell their guns to other people? I never said they are not "aware", I'm saying there is not only nothing stopping the 5 legal owner from selling their gun for a quick buck, but these sales could be done off the books just as easily so it's impossible to judge how much money they make from it. And after you purchase the gun it is almost impossible to enforce what is done with it, whether legislation is there or not. And you don't know that tighter laws will prevent those 5 from buying and selling their gun, they could buy it from a law abiding citizen who doesn't think much of it, and there you go. You can legislate what type of people buy the gun but it is almost impossible to enforce what is done after it leaves the shop until after the gun has been used.
And those laws can easily be sidestepped. Who's to say the 5 who pass all the tight regulations won't sell their guns to other people? I never said they are not "aware", I'm saying there is not only nothing stopping the 5 legal owner from selling their gun for a quick buck, but those "legal" sales could be done off the books just as easily so it's impossible to judge how much money they make from it. And after you purchase the gun it is almost impossible to enforce what is done with it, whether legislation is there or not. And you don't know that tighter laws will prevent those 5 "legal buyer" from buying and selling their gun, they could buy it from a law abiding citizen off the books who doesn't think much of it, and there you go. You can legislate what type of people buy the gun but it is almost impossible to enforce what is done after it leaves the shop until after the gun has been used.
A) you offer no type of real number to back up your assertion that gun manufactures rely on "legal sales that should not be legal" as a majority of their profit, if you offered some hard facts from a reputable source I'd be more inclined to believe it B) You're also assuming most criminals buy guns that were: bought legally from gun shops by people with the intention to sell to criminals. Again, where's your evidence? I can say most criminals get guns through gangs that smuggle them into the US illegally and it holds no more water than your assertion because I have nothing to back it up. Before you go calling people "wrong" you should probably bring something to back yourself up. C) There is a very easy way to sidestep those "tight laws". It's called off-the-book sales. the shop owner can just as easily purchase the weapon himself and sell it in the back of his store.
I spent 4 months in Federal court in NY as a juror in a gun smuggling case and I can tell you that there is a huge underground society that works right below our noses. I was witness to the practices of gun manufacturers who's salesman actually instruct illegal buyers how to beat the law , what forms to fill out and how to fill them out. I saw entire retail businesses set up as fronts to launder money. I saw gun manufacturers take the stand and lie about their knowledge. This is exactly how legal businesses do and profit from illegal business. It is done in gambling, liquor, drugs, cigarettes and any business that face restrictions. Your answer is "There is no way to stop it" My answer is there is but it takes bold action All your arguments boil down to this It won't work so let's not try If you follow your logic what difference would it make to you if we try ? Your worst case scenario is "I told you so " Your best is ok that's not the answer lets look at another solution. Where is you logical objection to trying ?
It is done in gambling, liquor, drugs, cigarettes and any business that face restrictions. Your answer is "There is no way to stop it" My answer is there is but it takes bold action" The war on drugs directly disproves your theory. Is a "War" on drugs not a "bold action"? There is no way to permanently make sure criminals don't get drugs, let alone guns. I'm not saying closing those loopholes won't help, but it WON'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM of criminals illegally procuring weapons, which is what you're saying it will do. The only thing that solves the problem of a criminal with a gun is another gun. That is fact. And yes, there are corrupt people in EVERY industry. What's your point? that doesn't mean your one example speaks for the entire industry's population. if you would like to make tighter laws for those guns, by all means, but there is no grounds to ban them from completely normal, responsible person like myself which is why I'm NOT opposed to it, I AM opposed to the idea that it will completely eliminate criminals getting weapons which is exactly what you're saying. You can't effectively enforce laws once the gun is sold from shop owner to customer or transactions done completely off the books.
Your argument is confused and your grasping at straws now. 1) you agree that we should have a national policy of background checks across the board for any gun sale. ( president Obama will propose this shortly) I guess you support this even though it is your personal opinion that it won't work 82% of us citizens support this that includes NRA members yet the NRA calls Obama evil and looking to take away people's 2nd amendment So I can assume you will support Obama on this issue ? Cuomo wants to eliminate military assault weapons like the ones used in CT & Colorado Do you support this law ?
The question about drunk driving is different and the same 1) who can say how many deaths due to drunk driving we would have if these laws were not in place. 2) drinking at a young age is considered a " right of passage " for young Americans , it is becoming less and less popular as young people grow up and our society matures Carry and using Guns is not mainstream , to preserve your right to responsibly own a gun and balance other people's right to peaceful existence we ask a compromise You will be allowed to own a gun subject to tight regulations , background checks and training. We have enough proof that a lot of gun owners need to be re examined
Carry and using Guns is not mainstream? That makes zero sense. Do people stop magically getting drunk past a certain age? Are there no alcoholics past the age of 40? In that argument you have no less right to say alcohol is a "right of passage" than I do to say teaching my kid how to use a gun is a "right of passage" so he should be allowed to use a gun. And what angers me the most is you talk about guns like you know the facts when you absolutely don't. Something like 47% of americans own a gun. Is that not "mainstream" enough for you? and when did you all of a sudden decide what was "mainstream" or not. I for one know PLENTY of people who have gone to a shooting range. That's a faulty argument. And the argument that just because it's mainstream it's subject to loose enforcement doesn't make sense. Driving is mainstream, does that mean it's not subject to tight regulations? Because every day I see about half a dozen people who shouldn't be driving. I'm all for some tighter laws but none of your arguments hold up.
Right Now as it stands we want every single person that wants the right to have a gun to be thoroughly scrutinized on a yearly basis. We want all loop holes closed as much as possible to strangle that market. We want Gun Companies to stop putting money into pushing death and we want them to eventually shrink to a small unpopular business. You and other gun supporters always point out that laws would not have stopped Newtown, well changing views of gun owners may have stopped her from buying and involving her son in gun ownership Regarding Cuomo's laws we should pass it immediately and tweak it as we go if it is unfair to certain gun types we can change it little by little. You make no sense You agree that we need a national back ground check and to stop sales to all non legal owners yet you refuse the laws that attempt to do so I suspect that you like other Fox news followers are secretly scared of everything around you
Only real problem with that though is that you're violating the rights of Joe. Is it OK to violate Joe's rights because you are scared and believe that guns have no legitimate purpose? Welcome to the animal kingdom. Eat or be eaten. Guess that life lesson missed you, huh? Don't worry, pink elephants and rainbows await you in the safe walled garden of your violence free utopia.
"You make no sense You agree that we need a national back ground check and to stop sales to all non legal owners yet you refuse the laws that attempt to do so " Completely false. I understand the desire to have those laws in place, however unlike you I understand this isn't a fairytale and not everyone will obey your new laws"and am completely aware that I still have to prepared for the worst. as should you. and there are people out there (not me personally) who ARE scared of people like you telling them what is or isn't adequate in defending their home or what is or isn't adequate in using hunting or at a range. THAT is what I'm not ok with, you're telling me what I can or can't do RESPONSIBLY based on the acts of criminals. And as far as Cuomo's law, I'm not supporting any law that bans weapons just on how they look and regardless of their capabilities. It is unfair to ALL gun types that fire one bullet per one pull of the trigger. No police of military officer uses a gun like that
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ny/new-york/crime/